Author Topic: Pomak language ?  (Read 49738 times)

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Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2010, 10:55 »
Some arguments:

Pomak language is between Bulgarian and Macedonian languages.
There are close relations but have many differencies with them.
Pomak language is more slavic than Bulgarian.
Pomak language has more preserved the Slavic purity than Bulgarian.
Pomak language belongs to the South-East Slavic group.
It is not easy to say that Pomak language is the same as Bulgarian.
Pomak language is more preserved in immigrants in Turkey.
Immigrants in Turkey do not define her own language as Bulgarian but Pomak language.
Rhodope region history has not always gone together with Bulgarian history.
Rhodope region is a combination point of the Bulgarian, Greek and Turkish cultures.
Therefore has it own richness and diversity.
Bulgarian language have created in 19. century as a syntetic language.
Under the German domination Czech language had death but was raised again.
Under the Arab domination Persi language had death along the 3 centuries, but poet Firdevsi has aroused the Persi language by Shahname.
And Ibrani language had dissapeared along the 2000 years but Israelis has resurrected this death language.
Pomak language is not too hard to standardize as a modern tongue.

We as Pomaks are aware of our diversity have not been any intention of separatism in the countries where we live.

Offline Беглик

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2010, 11:02 »
Toska, my personal experience with this topic is on just one occasion. My teacher in literature, himself from a village near Pirdop, once told us in class when speaking about dialects how he was enchanted by an elderly patient with whom he shared a room in a Plovdiv State Hospital. The man was from a village in the Zlatograd region. Unfortunately, from the many wonderful phrases we were told, currently I remember just one: Много больно бе даскальче, много больно.

Now  I remember the story of Eliza Dolittle from My Fair Lady, who although living in a city was initially totally uncomprehensible. Plus remember the ability of her professor only through the dialect to be able to pinpoint the origin of the speaker to a very small region.

Also, since you've raised the question of the Macedonian language, in the seventies I was listening to Radio Scopie, mainly the show Трите Гонга на Гьоко Георгиев. There I understood 100% of the stuff. In 1987 for the first time I met a person from there, a businessman, and I understood only about 70% of what he was saying. The feeling was that he was speaking some Bulgarian and you relax, then out of a sudden a totally unknown word or an exression will be used and the meaning is lost. Now, from the current Macedonian language I understand very little, maybe 10, 15%.

Offline Hashashin

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2010, 11:07 »
Mustafa, the language spoken by Pomaks in Turkey is very far from the language their ancestors spoke in Bulgaria and Greece. Today in Turkey it is heavy influenced by modern Turkish.
About the language I want to give you one more exapmle.
Turkish spoken by Turks in Northern Bulgaria, called Danubian Turkish (Tuna turkca) is very different from Turkish spoken in Kardjali region and Turkish spoken in Turkey. It is very hard for other Turks do understand this dialect and for its speakers to understand standard Turkish. But nobody says that it is not Turkish but a separate language.  The same is the case with Rup dialect. And I want to ask you which dialect you regard as Pomak language? Bacause pomaks in Bulgaria speak various dialects, and for pomaks out of Rup region it is hard to understand Rup.

Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2010, 11:48 »
I don’t think so, contrary Pomak language spoken in Turkey not influinced by Turkish so many. Because Pomaks also learn Turkish as a second language and do not  add Turkish words to their language. So Pomak language remains her own.

Our dialect is Rup dialect spoken central Rhodopi but with a century earlier preserved version.

 

Offline Тоска

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2010, 13:04 »
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Offline Hashashin

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2010, 13:51 »









As we can see the difference between them here is minor. ;)






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Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2010, 15:27 »
Kakvo praviş? Ut kade si? Yé sam … i sam ut Balgariya.
Yé hubavu e, çe se videhme. Atuka pri vas yé mlogu hubavu. 

Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2010, 15:38 »
There is no "which?" in Bulgarian so I would suggest that the word "kutri, kutra, kutro?" the pure slavic word.
Because "koi?" is equivalent "who?" in our tonque but "kutri" means "which?".
What do you think?

Offline Hashashin

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Ynt: Pomak language ?
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2010, 16:12 »
As far as I know in Serbian which is also a Slavic language WHO and WHICH is the same word- KO. In Russian there is a difference-  WHO is KTO and WHICH is KOTORIY. The Russian is simmilar to Rup one KUTRI but I will say again that it is not used only by pomaks but also from Christians in Rodope and Strandja mountains who also speak Rup dialects. As Boyan explained this thing which unites dialects in one language is the grammar. Tell me what in grammar except the triple identify article which is present in other Bulgarian dialects also is different from standard Bulgarian. Of course standard Bulgarian combines features from many dialects and because of this is it different from each of them. In fact standard Bulgaria is spoken only in TV and medias. In every area people speak an unique dialect.

Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2010, 16:55 »
Yes our tongue or dialect -as you stated that - there are some interesting similarities with Russian. We think that this is authentic remains from Smolyani slavic clan.
 

Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2010, 17:01 »
One the other hand, official languages are political projects that unite the people in one pot.
When Slavs spread out the vast regions differencies has increased between them. Thus separate slavic nations have occured. We are the remnants of Smolyani slavic clan not from proto-bulgarians.  So there will be some differencies. Our language is based on slavic gramer the same as bulgarian. But we can not say that two languages are exactly the same.

Offline Тоска

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2010, 17:04 »
Moite selo - Moina selo i guess this example contains different syntax also gender-neutral pronoun   

 
Anecdote

"Anywhere, A bulgarian man see a slovenian man who speak with telephone and our man takes heed off. Than he come up to slovenian man and tells him: - you are using " Da " allright then you are a bulgarian. Pride with yourself "   

Offline Беглик

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Re: Pomak language ?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2010, 17:13 »
Here is an example which doesn't seem to be gender neutral:

Сърцето ме боли за мойне другари,
  мойна дружина във зандани лежи.
  Нашети клети майки черни кърпи носят,
  нашети мили братя тъжни песни пеят.
 
  Искам да си ида в мойно родно село,
  та да си прегърна мойне мили сестри.
  Мъка ми на сърце за българска земя,
  за българска земя, за мойна дружина.

Offline Тоска

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Ynt: Pomak language ?
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2010, 17:23 »
мойно (neutral) родно село,
мойне (plural) мили сестри
мойна (female) дружина
 
Most important question. Do they whiped as an official grammer rule ? if not they're all nonsense   

Offline Беглик

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Ynt: Pomak language ?
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2010, 17:27 »
OK

 

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