Author Topic: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu  (Read 16368 times)

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Offline daylek

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  • pomakinka gorda sam jena... SorguluYorum
Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 14:52 »
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Ama olmadı daylek yanlışın var. Pomak türkçesi olacaktı doğrusu. Bakınız yukarıdaki iki üyemiz bir güzel pomak türkçesi ile yazışmışlar!  :D  Bu arada türkçem çok ileri seviyede olmasına rağmen ben bir türlü bu pomak türkçesini anlayamadım. Türkçeyi daha iyi bilen bir arkadaş bana tercüme hususunda yardımcı olabilirmi?

valla şimdi kızacaklar bana yine ama bilmeyen sussun demişler bırak bilmeyi ben anlamadığım için (Türkçe'yi değil Pomak Türkçesini) sustum. Ama sonra yine dayanamadım TÜRKÇE yazdım 

Offline iskeceli

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 16:05 »
mojime da recheme viye ajite ste od türkiyo pomaki neznate kakna stanava po iskecö i po yunana od to
vikate ey tay kak niye pomakine da prijivemene .od to fatilisme dinene yeko setne nami sade türkiye mi pomaga za dinsko no strana .i za mechityeno odto so uchime i turskiy ne oti da staneme turchene .setateliso viye .ako si zagubime dinene kakna sha staneme eytigana . tigana sha staneme yunanliye hristiyene  . i pomaklikot sha so krati.po yunana eynay yo .i ne yo innak. setne niye dumime sade pomatskiy ne turskiy kakno vikash önder bey . ti koto edin has pomak setash so sichkoso  i to yo has pomatskiy ezik.
 ne yo pomaktürkchesi .
XANTI brat ti hubave si storil da zafatil sazi  prikazavanye trebava da so nauchot vrit insanot po sekide kakna stanava po nashono strano po iskeccö

Offline iskeceli

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2009, 02:53 »
 yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
söyle diyebiliriz türkiyedeki arkadaslar in pek haberi yok bize ne baski uygulaniyor hem din hem egitim ve kültür de de büyük baski var yukarida söyleniyor müslümanligi türklükle özdeshlesh mishiz .belki öyle görünüyor .ama bana göre öyle degildir.türklere bukadar yakinlashma dogaldir .nedeni ise her konuda tam destek bize öncelikle din ve egitimde bize yüksek ogrenim kendi yerimizde yasakken türkiyede bize caba idi parasiz orda okuyorduk sonra yukarida türk profesörün kitabinda yaziyor sanki biz tecih ediyoruz türkce ögrenmeyi aslinda yunandan zorlama ile olushuyor .bizim yerlerimizde bilindigi gibi müslüman olmayan yunanlidir .hal böyle olunca .pomaklar hep müslüman kalmayi tercih ediyorlar .yunanli olmasinlar diye .
bilindigi gibi edesa ve florina kentlerde ordada bizim gibi ayni dili konusuyoruz insanlar var onlar makedon .
sayilari da cok . ancak kendilri yunanliyiz diyorlar makedonuz demiyorlar .oraya yakin bir baska sehirde yanya
da hristiyan arnavut var onlarda arnavutlugu redder hristiyan olduklari icin yunanliyiz derler bir baska örnek
atinada bir mahallede cingeneler hristiyan olduklari icin yunanliyiz diyorlar .durum böyle yunanda .müslüman
degilsen yunanlisin eger cingene müslüman ise ozaman kimligini koruyor cingene devam olmaya hakki var
türkler de ayni sekilde .pomaklar .hem pomak hem müslüman .eger bir pomagin dini hristiyan olursa (ki ben görmedim öyle bisey) ozaman pomak degildir .kim isterki etnik kimlgini kaybetsin ki .biz pomaklikla gurur duyuyoruz.öyle bir baska etnik kimlik benimseyelim de bir sinif atlayalim gibi niyetimiz de yok .biz evlerimizde hep pomakca konushuyoruz yuzyilladir böyle devam ediyor pomakca yazimiz olmamasina ragmen biz dilimizi korumaya devam edecegiz yukarida biz iskeceden pomaklar konushtugumuz pomakcayi anladim kadariyla  türkiyedeki arkadaslar pek anlamiyorlar tercume istiyorlar .buda gösteriyor bizim eski pomakca dilimiz hic degimemish . kac yüzyildan beri böyle devam ediyor bilinmiyor.pomaktürkce biseyde yok sadece pomakca miz var diyebiliriz .bu yaziyi okuyan arkadashlara birde hediye veriyorum .
ashagidaki sarkiyi sizler icin . iskeceden bizim sarkimizdir
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isushi me. izgorime. minkele mome                       kurut beni yak beni  minkele kiz

                                    Isushime, izgorime.       kurut beni yak beni
                               Ti me stori suho darvo.       beni kuru odun yaptin beni                                                                                    suho darvo.lava rovo. Minkele mome         kuru odun kütük. minkele kiz
                          zemi bradva sasetchay me        al baltayi ve parcala beni
                           Ta me stori na dve i na tri.       beni iki ve uc parca yap
                         
                            Ta me stori na sitni träski.       sen beni kücük parcacik yap
                          Zam me zberi fyalen mendil.       sonra topla beni pembe mendilin icine
                        Zam me metni na dva yogna.       at beni iki ates icine
                                            Minkele mome        minkele kiz
                       Ya da gorem ti da me gledash.        ben yanayim sen seyredesin
                       Ya da gorem ti da me gledash.        ben yanayim sen seyredesin
               
                           Da mi stanam bälen pepel.         beyaz kül olayim
                                           Zam me smeti         sonra süpür beni
                                            s rusata kosa         sari saclarinla
                        Zavarzay me v bälata sherfe.        beyaz mendilin icine bagla beni
                                            Minkele mome.        minkele kiz
                         Yonnesäy me f kray denizen         denizin kenarina getir beni

                         Da me kladesh na bäl kamen          beyaz tasin üstüne koy beni
                               Da me duye bälen vetar.         beyaz rüzgär essin beni
                                Da me duye bälen vetar         beyaz rüzgär essin beni
                                             Minkele mome          minkele mome
                            Da ne gledat moyse yotchi          benim gözlerim görmesin
                               ´ga she idesh drugo lübe         seni baska sevgili ile giderken
                   
                   




Offline bogutevolu

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2009, 10:30 »
Kendi kendime artık Pomakların kimlik sorunu anlamına gelen yazı yazmamaya karar vermiştim. Yani artık sorunla değil çözümle ilgilenmeliyiz. Sorun hakkında bir kaç yıldır epeyce yazdık. Artık yeter derken İskeçeli'nin yazısına baktım. Yunanistandaki etnik ve dini kimlikler arasındaki ilişkileri çok net bir biçimde özetlemiş. Her kelimesine katılıyorum. Pomaklar gerek Yunanistanda ve gerekse Türkiyede Türklerle tam kaynaşmış durumdadırlar. Durum Bulgaristanda biraz farklıdır. Orada Pomakların Türklerle ilişkileri daha belirgin bir fark taşıyor.

Biz Pomaklar açısından kim ne yazarsa yazsın kendi kimliğimizi Pomak olarak tanımlıyoruz. Gerek Yunanistandaki ve gerekse Türkiyedeki Pomaklar olarak dilimizi Pomakça olarak tanımlıyoruz. Bu açıdan ben Pomakçayı Bulgarca-Makedonca ile birlikte üçlü bir grup halinde birbirine çok yakın diller olarak niteliyorum. Benim tanımım bu. Bulgar kaynakları ısrarla Makedoncayı ayrı bir dil olarak kabul etmese de dünya Makedoncayı ayrı bir dil olarak kabul ediyorlar. Pomakçayı ise Pomakları da kabul etmedikleri için yada onları Bulgar müslümanı olarak kabul ettikleri için hepten yok saymaktalar. Halbuki nereden bakarsanız bakınız en az 300 yıllık bir zamandan beri ayrı gelişen bir topluluk ve kültür var. 300 yıllık değişim farkını yok saymak imkansızdır.

Zaten Pomaklık olgusu kültürel bir olgudur. Yoksa onu safkan soy bağlamında ele almak doğru değildir. Rodoplar örneğinde ele alacak olursak hristiyan iken müslüman olan halkın hepsinin mutlaka bulgar olması gerekmez. Bulgar soyundan olmak başkadır. Bulgarlaşmış olmak başkadır. Yani bulgarca konuşan hristiyan halkın mutlaka köken olarak bulgar olduğu söylenemez. Siyasi, kültürel, dinsel ve ekonomik nedenlerle o bölgede bulgar dil ve kültürü baskın hale geçmiş ve eski bir çok kökenden gelen halk Osmanlı öncesinde Bulgarlaşmıştır. Bunun üzerine bugün soyadlarından da anlaşıldığı üzere Osmanlı döneminde de bu halk içine dışarıdan önemli bir nüfus iskanı olmuştur. Ben bu kitle içinde bir çok faklı soyun kaynaştığı düşüncesindeyim. Ama bu eski halklar artık sadece genetik miras halinde kalmıştır. Kültürel kimlik açısından yok olmuştur.

İşte bu açıdan bizim son 300 yıldır kazandığımız Pomak dil ve kültürel kimliği bizim için çok önemlidir. O kimliği duyarlıkla korumak ve onun başka dominant ulusal veya küresel kültür selleri karşısında erozyondan korumak azmindeyiz. Onun için kimse bizi kendimizi tanımladığımız Pomak kimliğinden başka bir ad altında kategorize edemez. Pomak kimliğimizi de gerçekçi ve pragmatik anlamda savunuyoruz. Hiç bir hayal peşinde koşmuyoruz. Onun için Pomakların bugün dağıldığı tüm ülkeler içinde o ülkelerin yasal düzenlemelerine saygılı ama kendi pomak bilinçlerini koruyan bir toplum olarak var olmak istiyoruz. Onun için extremist, radikal ve fanatik eğilimlerden sakınmak ılımlı ve dikkatli bir politika izlemekten yanayız.  Biz varız. Var olduğumuza saygı istiyoruz. Kimseye de tehdit değiliz.

Offline slmbardakci

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 01:06 »
bir genetik araştırma

DISCUSSION
Which was the Initial Haplotype HbO-Arab Evolved on?
Approximately half of the normal Pomak chromosomes
display the patterns of Universal haplotypes I, II
and III while the other half displays two quite different
patterns, the rare Greek haplotype VI and the novel Pomak
haplotype I (Table 2).
The above-mentioned haplotypes are characteristic for
the Pomak population and have never been encountered
in Europe, with one unique exception concerning the
Greek haplotype VI which has been referred once in nor-
mal Greek chromosomes39. The 5´ subhaplotype pattern
of the latter is scarce in West Africa (2.9%), South Africa
(1.1%), Micronesia (0.5%) and Polynesia (0.4%). Haplotype
Pomak I, which is novel for Europe, encounters by
its 5´ subhaplotype in Melanesia (2.7%), Micronesia
(1.5%), Polynesia (0.7%) and Thailand (0.4%)17.
Grouping separately the respective 5´ and 3´ subhaplotypes
of the Greek haplotype VI and Pomak haplotype
I reveals more striking differences. Here, the 5´ subhaplotype
patterns “1(0)0(0)00(1)1” and “0(1)1(0)1(1)1” concentrate
all ambiguities, while the 3´ subhaplotype pattern
“(?)1(?001)1” (? meaning: not examined) is not informative
as may represent the 3´ part of haplotypes I, II
or IX.
All 21 HbO-Arab carrying chromosomes are linked
with the common 3´ subhaplotype pattern “(0)1(1001)1”,
which is shared, among others, between Universal haplotype
I and Greek haplotype VI in the Pomak population.
On the other hand, only 3 out of the 21 HbO-Arab carrying
chromosomes displayed a common 5´ subhaplotype
pattern (found in Universal haplotype I) while the remaining
18 belonged uniformly to the 5´ subhaplotype pattern
of Greek haplotype VI. This implies that the HbO-Arab
mutation occurred on a pre-existing Greek haplotype VI
(type VIa) and its frequency increased considerably thereafter.
The hypothesis that HbO-Arab emerged on a preexisting
Greek haplotype VI and not vice-versa is supported
by the fact that the overall frequency of the Greek
VI 5´ subhaplotype among the normal genes of Pomak
origin (0.126) is six-fold higher in comparison with HbOArab
genes (0.021). This can be derived from the mean
HbO-Arab allele frequency in Pomaks (0.0273)4 and the
mean Greek VI 5´-subhaplotype frequency in normal
(0.129) and HbO-Arab Pomak chromosomes (0.857) (Table
2).
The recombination of the Greek haplotype VI 5´ subhaplotype
with a conventional 3´ subhaplotype (to produce
the pattern found in the exceptional 3 HbO-Arab
carrying chromosomes) has probably taken place much
later. This can also be supported by the 6:1 ratio between
the two different HbO-related haplotypic patterns. Additionally,
the fact that all HbO-Arab carrying chromosomes
displayed exclusively the 3´ subhaplotype pattern
“(0)1(1001)1”, implies that the above recombination
events were given the chance to occur for a limited time
only. If not so, one would expect to see more 3´ subhaplotypes
as the recombination rate within 3´ subhaplotype is
considerably high32. The latter is not true for the Greek
haplotype VI-related normal Pomak chromosomes, which
present three different 3´ subhaplotypes (types Greek VÉa,
VÉb and VÉc). These prospects are in keeping with the
results derived from the coalescent (HbO-Arab mutation
has emerged 2.883±2.471 years ago whereas the HbOArab
carrying Greek haplotype VIc recombined with
Universal haplotype Ia 366±561 years ago)50.
The worldwide-observed patterns of HBB frameworks
are considered to be ancient. The extremely low mutation
rate of the translatable region of the beta globin explains
the tendency that frameworks show to be conserved
throughout ages. Data concerning HBB frameworks are
not available in Greek population, but several international
studies can be taken into account37. Within this context,
finding the same framework CCTCT in close association
with the Greek VIa haplotype in all our HbO-Arab
cases as well as the all others already reported in the literature2,51
indicates a single origin of the mutation.
Our data can be compared with those of the last two
studies on the HbO-Arab related haplotypes over the
Mediterranean area:
The first2 has been carried out in two families, one of
Italian and one of Albanian origin. The HbO-Arab carriers
of the Italian family presented the Greek haplotype
VI 5´ subhaplotype pattern, while the HbO-Arab carriers
of the Albanian family the Benin one [0(?)0(0)00(?)1].
As both chromosomes presented the CCTCT framework
pattern, they thus can be explained as products of minor
recombination events evolved locally. The presence of the
African-specific 7.0 kb HpaI/HBB polymorphism, present
in both families, was not confirmed in our study as the
respective HpaI/3’HBB(ii) polymorphism has not been
detected positive in any Pomak HbO-Arab carrier (Figure
2). Nevertheless, this is not necessarily controversial,
as it could be explained by a local recombination event.
The second51 was carried out in 20 carriers of the HbOArab
mutation from 9 families of non-Greek origin
(F.Y.R.O.M., Bulgarian, Turkish and Rom origin). All of
them were found to be associated with the Greek haplotype
VI 5´ subhaplotype and the CCTCT framework. The
HpaI/3´HBB(ii) positivity can be explained again by a local
recombination event within the Pomak HbO-Arab 3´
subhaplotype “(0)1(1001)1” and a “(?)1(?01?)1” one32,33.
Besides, the origin of HbO-Arab cannot be traced on the
populations from which the sample derived, as the Greek
haplotype VI as well as the CCTCT framework has never
been reported in their normal genes.
What Favoured the Increase of HbO-Arab Mutation
Frequency in Pomaks?
The presence of two ambiguous haplotypes in the
small, yet of unidentified origin, population of Pomaks is
an intriguing observation. As all other populations that
present these haplotypes have no geographical or historical
relation with Pomaks, a good explanation would be a
de novo formation and expansion in an environment of
intense genetic drift. Indeed, the mountainous area Pomaks
have inhabited from at least Byzantine Era in combination
with all available historical data, which confront
to their having very limited contacts with their neighbouring
populations (Greeks, Turks and Bulgarians), support
this hypothesis52. Besides, endogamy is socially acceptable
in Pomaks14.
The above prospects are in keeping with the extensive
linkage disequilibrium that is observed in Pomaks. Moreover,
the low number of observed haplotypes in relation
to expected alleles and the limited value of theta estimation
from k (èk) confronts to that Pomaks form a genetically
isolated population. The high gene diversity (H),
average gene diversity over loci (h), theta estimation from
H (èH) and mean intra- and inter-population number of
pairwise differences (ð) are attributed to the fact that two
of the most frequent haplotypes (Greek VI and Pomak I)
differ in many polymorphisms. As time to expansion (ô)
estimate leads to a high value (5.844), Pomaks are considered
to evolve slowly, as happens in a genetically isolated
population.
Under these circumstances, it is a matter of chance,
which of novel genetic events will be eventually selected
to dominate. The role of chance is enhanced when bottleneck
phenomena are superimposed. If, at last, the heterozygous
state of HbO-Arab carries a beneficial effect
for survival, its fixation will become easier and faster. It is
worth noticing that HbS that is absent from Pomaks, probably
because there had been no malaria selective pressure
in the region53. Nevertheless, haemoglobinopathies
have a balanced presence in areas without any obvious
reason17.
How and when the Novel 5’ Subhaplotypes Found in
Pomaks were Formed?
Greek haplotype VI 5´ subhaplotype pattern may represent
the product of a recombination event between haplotypes
É and ÉÉ at the 9.4 kb sequence between HindIII/
HBG1 and HincII/HBBP1 polymorphisms. With a recombination
rate of 5x10-10 per nucleotide per generation, this
event can occur every 210000 meiotic events approximately33,54.
Considering that the Pomak population consists of
30,000 individuals, and that haplotypes I and II are detected
in 48.4% (15/31) and 6.5% (2/31) among normal
Pomak individuals respectively, the mean time interval
between two consequent recombination events in that
sequence is calculated to be close to 225 generations.
The possibility of a point mutation on the HincII/
3´HBBP1 site leading to the same result is less probable
as it is expected to happen at a rate similar to 7.4x10-9 per
nucleotide per generation (as calculated for HBB)48,55 or
every about 405400000 meiotic events approximately. In
a population of 30000 of which 48.4% present haplotype
I this event may happen every about 27900 generations.
The Pomak haplotype I 5´ subhaplotype pattern may
have resulted from a recombination event between the
common haplotypes ÉÉ or VI and III or ÉX at the 6.1 kb
long sequence between HindIII/HBG1 and HincII/
HBBP1 polymorphisms. This event, considered to occur
once every about 5000 generations, is expected to be far
more scarce that the recombinations mentioned above,
because haplotypes II, III, VI and IX are less common in
the Pomaks.
The hypothesis of a de novo nucleotide change in the
HincII/HBBP1 or HindIII/HBG1 restriction site on haplotypes
II and III, respectively, is again very improbable.
Given that haplotypes II and III are detected in 9.7% (3/
31) normal genes of Pomak origin, a population of 30000
meets an event like that every about 139000 generations.
The above mentioned suggestions are supported by
the fact that the only possible recombination site recognizable
by DNAsp 4.0 is between HindIII/HBG1 and
HincII/HBBP1 polymorphisms. Besides, they are in keeping
with the most probable estimated HbO-Arab age,
which is close to 144 generations (see Results).
Where do Pomaks come from?
The problem of tracing the origin of HbO-Arab mutation
could be efficiently transformed in tracing the origin
of their main carriers, Pomaks. The problem of the
origin of Pomaks has not been solved in a definite way
until our days. Despite that the dominant belief is that
Pomaks represent descendants of ancient Thracian
tribes52, there are still some scientists who believe that they
have originated from ancient African tribes or, less possibly,
from Mongolian tribes that inhabited Asia Minor and
Balkans after 7th century A.C.
The absence of the TaqI/3´HBG2 polymorphism in all
individuals of Pomak origin of the present study might
suggest an African origin30. This hypothesis could be further
supported by the selective presence of the abundant
in Pomaks Greek VI 5’ subhaplotype pattern in small
numbers of African individuals (Table 4)17. On the other
hand, Pomaks lack common characteristics of the modern
African populations like the dominant 5´ subhaplotype
“0(?)0(?)00(?)1”, the HpaI/3’HBB(ii) polymorphism
and the HbS mutation. Moreover, the main anthropological
characteristics of the Pomaks (white skin, blue eyes)
are far to be characterized as African.
Mongoloid characteristics are also absent from Pomaks.
Besides, the commonest HBB framework in Mongolia
(TGTCC) is totally absent from Pomaks37.
It is interesting to glance at the rooted tree constructed
by the use of pairwise differences based on data shown
in Table 4. The position of Pomaks in that tree is believed
to be somewhat misleading, as the presence of Greek haplotype
VI and Pomak haplotype I brings them closer to
Africans and Oceanians, respectively. To surpass this controversy,
a correction could be made under which the relative
frequencies of Greek haplotype VI and Pomak haplotype
I are equally divided and added to Universal haplotypes
I/II and II/III, respectively. This manipulation is
in keeping with the belief that the distinct Pomak haplotypes
were formed de novo, within the Pomak population,
as a result of intense genetic drift, by recombination
between the Universal haplotypes I, II and III. As a result,
a tree that brings Pomaks closer to Europeans and
Greeks (Figure 8) is constructed, enhancing the hypothesis
that Pomaks are descendants of ancient Thracian tribes.
Additionally, our own unpublished results confirmed that
Greeks are the only Europeans that share the absence of
TaqI/3´HBG2 polymorphism with Pomaks. Under this
point of view, Pomaks might carry genes that took part in
ancient recombination events along with African genes.
Reconstruction of the “Puzzle” of HbO-Arab
Mutation History
Be this as it may, we hypothesize that the formation of
the Pomak É 5´ subhaplotype occurred in the ancestors of
this population several thousand years ago in a similar
way while the ancestors of the present day Pomaks had
already been separated as a distinct population. Within
this group and for a relatively short period only, the novel
5´ subhaplotypes recombined with the standard 3´ subhaplotypes
(of Universal haplotype I, II, or III) to form the
final haplotypes found in the normal Pomak chromosomes.
We further hypothesize that the subsequent spread of
HbO-Arab carrying chromosomes over the Mediterranean
basin and the Middle East took place was effected either
during the Alexander the Great expansion or the Ottoman
Empire; minor local recombination events may have
Figure 8. Tree suggesting possible evolutionary relationship between
populations of Table 4 (after equal distribution of Pomakspecific
haplotypes Greek VI and Pomak I to their hypothetical
ancestor haplotypes I/II and II/III, respectively).
occurred later, without loosing the original characteristics
of the mutation.
Summing up, Hb O-Arab was first arisen in Pomaks,
on the rare Greek VIc haplotype and CCTCT framework
about 2000 years ago and dispersed throughout Mediterranean
and Middle East countries, where minor recombination
events took place.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
The present study was financially supported by the
Greek National Scholarship Foundation (I.K.Y.). All authors
express their thanks to Ms Kally Simitopoulou and
Ms Andrea Zatkova from University of Thrace, Department
of Anthropology and Ms Irene Stratidaki and Mr
Nick Kountourakis from University of Crete, Institute of
Technology and Research for their excellent technical
support.


Offline Тоска

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2010, 23:16 »
O genetik araştırmalarda baskın olarak çıkan gen gurubunuda söyleseler ya ! Ben söyleyeyim yunanistandaki makedon azınlıkla çok benzer sonuçlar ...

Offline aras

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2011, 09:20 »
slm, arkadaslar .Ben yunanistan da yasayan pomak kokenli birisiyim yillarca kafamizi karistirdilar pusulayi sasirdik nerdeyse .simdi de ilk defaya mahsus olarak pomak turkcesi diye bir sey goruyorum daha da kafam karisti.saygilar herkese

 

Offline ЖАРКО ЖЕГЛЕВ

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Re: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2011, 16:48 »
Her yol doğru yol değildir. Bilgiye sahip olan, doğru yolu kendisi bulur ve bulmalıdır.
Kendini şaşırtma.

Offline rodoplar

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Ynt: Yunanistandaki pomaklar ve pomaklarin kimlik sorunu
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2011, 17:05 »
O pomak turkcesi diye sallayanlar zeka ozurlu bile olamazlar. Pomakca bir slav dilidir ve kendine ozgudur. Icinde turkce kelime var diye onu turkce ilan edeceksek yunancayi da, sirpcayi da turkce ilan edelim olsun bitsin. Fasistligin ulastigi en son nokta pomakcayi pomak turkcesi ilan etmektir vesselam.

 

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